You learn something new every day....

[tiggymalvern]

So apparently I like guy-on-guy sex because I'm a proponent of female chastity who feels threatened by het.

'Twas said by academics, so it must be true!
*snort* Would it be too much trouble for them to go and find an academic who actually likes the subject on which they are opining?

And as a not-so-aside, the artwork at the top of this article was done by the wonderful Kiriko Moth, and since they didn't link to her, I will.

Comments

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

That's about the most negative article I've ever read that doesn't actually include the word 'ick.' I thought nerve was supposed to be sex-positive?

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

Clearly only when it applies to something the author finds hot personally....

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

I wonder if they threw it to her for her ethnicity. "Oh, you've got a Vietnamese (I think) name, go research Asian porn!"

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

Well, it looks like either that or they drew straws, because I get the distinct feeling she didn't rush up to volunteer.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty clear!

[mac-lynn.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is, people will read this and really believe it. Grrr. Why do some people think that because they have a degree in higher education they know what the hell I'm thinking or why I do what I do.

*sigh* At least my friends know that what I'm really like. ^.^

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

It's the way you have to get right to the very last line of the article before they actually quote a fan who says 'I like it 'cos it makes me hot!'

The annoying thing is there are academics out there who are into the study of fandom and slash/yaoi, as opposed to treating it as a distasteful sideline to 'Modern Japanese Literature and Film'. Perhaps one of them might have had some clue about the subject instead of taking bizarre pseudo-feminist guesses.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

So does that mean that straight men who like girl-on-girl action are likewise threatened but heterosexual relationships?

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

It's the logical assumption, innit? Hey, fun, I scare 90% of the male population of the planet!

Now, how to use this interesting piece of information? *eg*

[kendokat.livejournal.com]

*gig* there will be more articles probably coming out about the yaoi fandom in the west as it becomes more popular with tons of erroneous information. I love the conclusions that were drawn out of this . . . that women are intimidated by heterosexual sex. Chuckles that could be farther from the truth. Ahemmm . . . I love heterosexual sex (hmm - bisexual well that's certainly another interesting topic for discussion) and loving yaoi is just fun, a major turn on but snorts, certainly not for the reasons they draw.

Sighs . . . just more propaganda by a patricarchial world that wants to make women's sexual fantasies be abnormal or a reflection of some sort of psychosis.

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

just more propaganda by a patricarchial world that wants to make women's sexual fantasies be abnormal or a reflection of some sort of psychosis.

What's even more annoying about it is that these are women spouting this bollocks. Obviously sexually repressed women brainwashed with seventies feminist doctrines about how men are perverts and women are above all that sort of demeaning porn stuff, but women all the same. *Sigh*.

[notowned.livejournal.com]

to be scrupulously accurate, this could indeed to apply to *some* yaoi fans coughmillyfancough.

But when will these fuckwits work it out?

Pretty = good

2xpretty = 2xgood

Hawt good

2xhawt = Hawt Squared

We're just going where we get more bang for our buck!

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

Obviously applying the same kind of logic to women that they so easily apply to men drooling over lesbian porn would be demeaning to women. Or something. 'Cos we're not allowed to just enjoy being horny *rolls eyes*

[notowned.livejournal.com]

it explains a lot about my marriage, certainly :)

[immortals-good.livejournal.com]

Thats how I feel about F/F! :-)

[andmydog.livejournal.com]

"Heterosexual romance, by comparison, is distinctly more threatening."

Yes. I so totally read about hot boys having sex because I am threatened by heterosexuality. Not because the boys are hot, or because the story is well-written, or because the real control is in the hands of the writer/reader, but because I'm askerred of relationships.
Dude.
I have fear if nerve writes an article on yuri.





mosey_pussycat, you is teh roxx0rs.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

I bet if someone told her about lesbian yaoi fans her head would go 'splodey.

[andmydog.livejournal.com]

Oh, we got cited in the article. Something about how 90% of yaoi fans are female, and some're gay.
Kinda discounts the article's premise of Fear of Teh Het, though, don't it?

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

But lesbians do fear Teh Het, that's why they're lesbians! Ah, Bizarro World. I've missed it so.

[andmydog.livejournal.com]

Oh my god you're right!

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

By that logic men who like to look at twin buxom blondes diddling each other are celebate.

But thematic differences between East and West were immediately apparent. In Japanese yaoi, genitalia are indicated by a big white circle (per industry jargon, a "glowing cone of white light.") Its American counterpart shows "Women read these stories because they make them feel sexual in a way that hetero romances don't." everything: sloppy blowjobs, penetration, facial come shots. While Japanese protagonists are androgynous and can easily pass as women, American yaoi men are manlier (but still never too butch)....

*Smacks forehead! THAT'S RIGHT...Ayano Yamane struck me as VERY caucasian...okay...so her English was a bit non existant...and her features were kinda exotic in a Japanese way.....BUT if an ACADEMIC SAYS SO it MUST BE RIGHT!! No Japanese woman would draw film canisters being shoved up an buttend of a man let alone buy even ONE manga with such a disgustingly American Theme.....

Oh that article really needs further scrutiny...hmmm yessss. *where DID I put my knives??*

[kiri-moth.livejournal.com]

I don't think Miss Ng did any research on her own...nor did she listen to HALF of what she was told when she interviewed everyone.

[kendokat.livejournal.com]

Yeah . . . that is kind a my impression of what was written . . . listening with only half an ear? WTF?

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

I suspect she approached the article with the assumption that these women must be psychologically odd, and selected her quotes to support it. Whatever happened to the ideal of unbiased reporting, huh?

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

Basically walking into it with her EWWW hat firmly planted on her head and it filtered out anything she didn't want to hear.

I have made more guys understand slash and yaoi but pointing to HUSTLER than I ever hope to get women to understand. The het men might be squinked but they at least are in tune with their urges and grudgingly conceed I have a point where women are just to damn mired in their own fear and distrust of their own bodies to just open up to the possibility even.

*face palm*

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah - the straight guys are easy, you just cite the lesbian thing. They still go 'ick' over the details, but they get it *g*

Once a woman's had 'porn is nasty' bashed into her head by the 'feminists', it's more of an uphill struggle. Really, the best way to convince women about slash is to show them the stuff that pushes their particular buttons. That's worked on a lot of nay-sayers over the years.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's a really good point! I think women are still so taught to be afraid of their own sexuality...

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

But thematic differences between East and West were immediately apparent.
"...because I only looked at two comics."

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

"...and the Japanese one I looked at was a decade old."

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

I'm still wondering which Americans drew all those doujinshi of mine with the sloppy blow-jobs, penetration and facial come shots. 'Cos they sure went to an awful lot of trouble to print the text in Japanese. *scratches head*

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

*dies laughing*

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

BWAHAHAHAHHA!! Well see that's the American way of censorship. Like the Japanese seem to think that if you put a dot over the actual SPOT of penetration people won't actually KNOW a pair of guys is fucking each other thru the bed/wall/table/floor....American censorship laws make sex okay if it's foreign...then it is put in the same class as ART HOUSE FILMS and aren't considered porn.

See this is why I need to dissect this entire thing with a spork.....

[tameiki.livejournal.com]

Gods, Pira. And I thought it was only when you posted on your own site that I needed to be "liquid free." Now, that theory was blown all to hell and back.

Ayano Yamane was actually a man going through a sex change operation, dressed in drag. You only thought "her" English was non-existent because "she" didn't say much. That was to hide the tale-tell low, masculine voice. She's also had plastic surgery to make her appear to be Asian.

There. How's that for retaliation?

[hidden-hero.livejournal.com]

Nope....no lj is safe from my twisted bent on reality....Oh man this tears it...it's too good to resist.

Project #24 this week....is to take this essay and just tear it to pieces one paragraph at a time.

[imre-nico.livejournal.com]

Shades of our continuing conversation :| Yes, there are chicks out there writing "yaoi" whose ulterior motives submarine, sophomoric and transparently, just beneath; they tend to use one of the male characters as a female proxy, and they tend to uke him out. They aren't interested in teh awesome and undeniable hawt of male-male carnal relations- they're just too jealous of canon female characters to write het, and just conscious enough to disdain the construct of "Mary Sues".

And we know the archetype. We recognize her from each other. I won't cite individuals, they're as easy to spot as whores in church...or virgins in a brothel, to wax more apropos...

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

I won't cite individuals

...unlike notowned above *snerk*
As mistressrenet pointed out, she obviously didn't research further than one or two books, and those most likely outdated. The idea that this might be an art form with complexities and progressions much like any other seems to have passed her by. Like pretty much everything else obviously did.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Not to mention five minute's work on Japanese censorship laws would've helped.

[moonriddler-mim.livejournal.com]

Dude! *amazed*

so THAT's why! *total sarcasm*

well, if it were as they say, then the world would soon stop bringing babies into the world (since I believe the yaoi genre will continue to grow).

[andmydog.livejournal.com]

Mwahhahaha! My agenda, she is working!

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

Oh, you bet it'll continue to grow. Helped along by all the careful pimping and recruiting that goes on *g*.

[imishin.livejournal.com]

Yep sweetie, the moment I saw you, that's what I thought. 'She's sooo afraid of anything het," I said to meself. 'Nope, she's not into yaoi for all the lovely boy-lovin' and complex relationships, not at all.' But that's okay because I still adore you anyway.

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

That kind of logic also completely ignores the fact that a lot of yaoi fans originally come from the world of het porn, and indeed in some cases continue to read and write the two side by side. Those of us who promptly ditched het after finding slash did, of course, do so on the grounds that it was just so much hotter! XD

[imishin.livejournal.com]

Lol, no need to convince me, go and beat some sense into the idiot who wrote the article!!!

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

I gave bolshy feedback, what more d'you want, huh? *g*

[king-chiron.livejournal.com]

Hopefully Nerve will be open to a well-written rebuttal?

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

I just did the 'feedback' thing, but their interface eliminates return breaks (and hence paragraphs) when you post, which doesn't help attempts at 'well-written'. Clearly they're only expecting the odd sentence of feedback, not mini-essays of fact. When I saw that, I was glad I'd restrained myself to picking up on a few more of the more obvious points, rather than lambasting the whole thing.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Well, you KNOW what I think about this. And how terrified I am of the het sex - just ask kingchiron!